Short Essay #1

The beginning of Book 5 sees a blatant transition. Mimicking back to Socrates’ arrest in the beginning of the Republic, Polemarchus holds his cloak - symbolizing a new start to the argument – and contends to whether or not Socrates has fully argued what he claimed he would. Then the group as a whole decides that he hasn’t done a satisfactory job in explaining the community of the city, specifically, on the rearing of the women and children, as Adeimantus contests (449d). Socrates claims he skipped these arguments on purpose: “you don’t know how great a swarm of arguments you’re stirring up… I saw it then and passed by so as not to cause a lot of trouble” (450a, b). Of course Socrates will ultimately take on any argument necessary in the defense of justice, and does so here, but I want to re-examine the build-up.

The three waves that Socrates expounds on in Book 5 are focused on education, holding possessions in common, and who should rule. The direct concern that Adeimantus and Glaucon pose is “what the community of children and women will be among our guardian, and their rearing when they are still young… attempt to say what the manner of it must be” (450c). Although this may be a bit more specific of an apprehension that Glaucon vocalizes here – speaking specifically to women and children – Socrates has already touched on the rearing and education of the guardians. In fact, to this point Socrates has at least on the surface talked about education, commonality of people, and who should rule all before he is stopped and forced to go down this road. So what hasn’t he said up until now that leaves the interlocutors unsatisfied? To do this, I first wish to look at what Socrates has already said about education and rearing.

“But how, exactly will [the guardians] be reared and educated by us?” (376d) Socrates asks Glacuon, but it is Adeimantus that accedes. Upon this inquisition, Socrates claims that education is music and gymnastics, beginning with the former. He then asserts that speeches are a part of music that have two parts, with one being part being false and the other true, claiming that we must instruct our children of the false first, claiming “We make use of tales with children before exercises” (377a). So music must precede gymnastics, and speech must be taught from false to true.

But the tales housed in the City in Speech are very different from the tales taught in Athens. Socrates claims that most of the stories told now must be thrown out, claiming the two men that he quotes from constantly throughout the Republic as the main culprits. He calls their tales “false for human beings,” and goes on to say that the lies that they tell are not “fine” and they should be blamed for them (377d). The biggest issue with these great poets is their “bad representation of what gods and heroes are like” (377e). This is a lot to break down but it’s all there together. The poets tell tales about the gods, but at points these tales break away from what is known to be true of the gods, therefore, Socrates is concluding that the poets are telling lies. But did he not just claim that education starts with music, which includes the false aspect of speech? We can learn from the false action of speech and the tales that we tell our children, yet he doesn’t want false poetry in his city.

“The god must always be described such as he is, whether one presents him in epic, lyrics, or tragedies” (379a). This ties back to the truth telling aspect; if a god is a god, he must always be described in the way he actually is. But who are the gods? Greek mythology is all about story telling. If the gods where perfect they would only be present in tales to fix human problems, and that’s a lackluster story. That’s where the power of the poet comes in, he can imitate the good and the bad, and he can make a god look good and bad. “Now, as it seems, if a man who is able by wisdom to become every sort of thing and to imitate all things,” he’s talking about the perfect poet, “should come to our city… we would fall on our knees before him as a man sacred, wonderful and pleasing; but we would say that there is no such man among us in the city, nor is it lawful for such a man to be born there” (398a). The perfect poet can’t dwell in the city because he shows a mixture of good and bad imitations, whereas Glaucon and Socrates desire someone who will only imitate the good.

The young will not be allowed to hear any tales that include bad imitations, which includes seemingly all of Hesiod and Homer. “We’ll persuade nurses and mother to tell the approved tales to their children and to shape their souls with tales more than their bodies with hands” (377c). Why is everything so filtered Socrates? Surely I understand the point, that they would have the “finest rearing,” (401d) as Glaucon says, living in a world with all people who aren’t going to deceive you would yield trusting youth, and because of the impressions carried with us from our youth throughout the rest of our lives (395c, d). But it leaves me with questions about the nature of the guardians: why were they not taught the false forms of speech first? Is the teaching of false speech before true speech something not even practiced in the City in Speech?

I understand that Socrates wants to give equal rights to everyone in the city as he does with the medals, claiming that any quality can spring from another. But all of the gold models, or guardians are taught together. Why does their teaching specifically have to be so strict? The guardians, when they are trained know right from wrong, but it seems that in their youth they are just as naïve as anyone else and must be brought up in the light, so to speak. If this is the case, tying it back directly to the soul, one would conclude then that the calculating part of the soul needs to be developed, and that it initially does not have the ability to distinguish the good from the bad.

So what else do the interlocutors want Socrates to say about the education and rearing of the children and women? The education and rearing, we can conclude, are an all-encompassing project. Started from birth, the guardians are born into a city of no deception, no lies. If so the children’s education starts as soon as they can interact with the people in the city, and by same reasoning, the women, if educated in the city will be educated and reared similarly because of the intrinsic value of the city.